斯蒂芬维尔，得克萨斯州 – 2008年（STEPHENVILLE,TX – 2008）
中文版
中文版
简介：2008年1月8日，美国得克萨斯州斯蒂芬维尔发生了一起重大UFO目击事件。UFO调查组织MUFON发布了一份77页的报告，分析了雷达记录与目击者证词，发现雷达曾捕捉到以近2000英里时速移动的物体。报告还指出，其中一个物体曾飞向美国总统布什的牧场，但未解释原因。
2008年1月8日，美国得克萨斯州斯蒂芬维尔发生了一起美国最大的UFO目击事件之一。UFO调查组织”互助UFO网络”（MUFON）发布了一份关于此次目击事件的77页报告。MUFON是美国的一个UFO调查组织，成立于1969年，目前拥有3000名成员，总部位于加利福尼亚州纽波特比奇。
事件经过（据报告描述）
这份名为《得克萨斯州斯蒂芬维尔特别研究报告》的MUFON报告由格伦·舒尔茨和罗伯特·鲍威尔撰写。舒尔茨曾在白沙导弹靶场工作，拥有雷达经验；鲍威尔拥有化学学位，并在超威半导体公司工作期间积累了丰富的半导体经验。
该报告通过多次《信息自由法》请求获取了联邦航空管理局和国家气象局的雷达记录，并将其与目击者证词进行了对比分析。
舒尔茨和鲍威尔得出结论，雷达数据证实了目击者对不明物体的观察，也证实了空军关于该区域有十架飞机活动的说法。他们表示，很难确定目击者看到了什么，但确实有某种物体存在。他们指出，雷达曾两次捕捉到一个以近2000英里时速移动的物体，其他时间则显示为一个缓慢移动的物体。
乔治·W·布什与德国总理安格拉·默克尔于2007年11月在草原教堂牧场前合影。
媒体广泛关注报告中的一个观察结果：雷达记录显示，两个物体中的一个直接向克劳福德的草原教堂牧场移动。这里是美国总统乔治·W·布什的住所，被称为”西部白宫”。报告未就这一移动的原因得出任何结论。
作者还得出结论，当时军事空中活动频繁，但雷达记录显示未对不明物体采取任何公开行动。他们对这可能是一架没有应答器的恐怖分子飞机表示担忧。
舒尔茨和鲍威尔表示，他们在部分《信息自由法》请求中感到被一些政府机构阻挠。他们鼓励政府更主动地提供有关该事件的更多信息。
1月8日的斯蒂芬维尔事件中，数十名目击者报告称，夜空中出现一个巨大物体，在社区上空悬停后高速飞离。飞行员史蒂夫·艾伦从地面观察到该物体，描述其有半英里长，带有闪烁的频闪灯。他还说，该物体被两架战斗机追击，随后以他估计为3000英里的时速消失。
“我不知道这是圣经中的经历，还是来自另一个宇宙的什么东西，但它绝对不属于这里，”艾伦说。
另一名目击者是当地执法人员勒罗伊·盖特曼，他报告称看到一个红色发光物体悬浮在3000英尺高空。”它太快了，我用双筒望远镜都跟不上，”盖特曼说。
里克·索雷尔斯说，他在树林里猎鹿时看到了这个物体。”你看那些树，它就在那里，”他告诉ABC新闻。他估计其长度相当于”三到四个足球场”，但由于视角原因，他无法完全确定。
索雷尔斯后来声称，军用直升机此后曾低空飞越他的房产，他还接到过奇怪的电话。他还声称，一个陌生男子曾来到他家门口，甚至有一次在索雷尔斯抓起步枪后对他说：”孩子，我们有和你一样口径的武器，但我们更多。”然后又说：”你需要闭嘴，别再说你看到的东西了。”
“我正在决定是否开门，”索雷尔斯对《帝国论坛报》说。”我们就那样面对面站着，互相看着。我想他穿得严严实实，狗叫得那么厉害，他肯定知道自己有被抓住的危险。那时我才意识到，他想让我看到他。”然后那名男子转身走进了树林。
美国空军最初表示，目击者看到的可能是商业客机的反射光。然而，他们后来澄清说，1月8日有十架F-16战隼战斗机在该区域进行夜间训练任务。
“出于公众知情考虑，空军预备役司令部公共事务部意识到，关于军用飞机训练活动的报告存在错误，”声明中说。
据空军发言人卡尔·刘易斯称，这些飞机来自第457战斗机中队，最初报告中的错误是由于基地各部门之间的内部沟通问题造成的。
CNN《拉里·金现场》
UFO：疑问与争议
播出时间：2008年1月18日 21:00 美国东部时间
此为速记稿。此副本可能并非最终版本，且可能有所更新。
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埃拉斯县警官勒罗伊·盖坦：它们在空中舞动，闪烁着。
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金：今晚，得克萨斯州夜空的奇异景象引发了超乎寻常的疑问和争议。
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身份不明的男性：这些是不明飞行物。
身份不明的男性：军方否认与此有关。
史蒂夫·艾伦（称1月8日在得克萨斯州天空目击UFO活动）：不管它是什么，它都巨大无比。
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金：近距离接触与UFO——你相信外星生命存在吗？
你相信他们来过地球吗？
接下来在《拉里·金现场》，我们将听取目击者、调查人员和专家的意见。
晚上好。
上周，得克萨斯州斯蒂芬维尔（一个人口约1.5万、位于沃斯堡西南70英里的小乡村）的几个人目击了被许多人称为UFO的现象。
那么，天空中的那些奇怪光线到底是什么？
本周，我们派《拉里·金现场》节目组前往得克萨斯州斯蒂芬维尔。
让我们听听一些人的说法。
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艾伦：我们朝这边看。有一些灯光高速接近。它们来到离我们大约一英里、距地面约3000英尺的地方。非常不寻常的灯光，不是本地的，从我们身边经过向斯蒂芬维尔飞去。灯光重新排列，变成火焰，然后消失了。
它又从这边回来，有两架军用喷气机在追击。
身份不明的男性：我回头看向西南方，有一道非常亮的光。几秒钟后，第二道光出现了。第二天，一个朋友打电话告诉我，有一个UFO目击事件发生在我家上空。我不是说我看到了UFO，但根据其他所有人的报告，显然我看到了那个东西。
身份不明的男性：它们正好划过天空，经过得克萨斯州斯蒂芬维尔的北缘，我离这里的法院只有两个街区。它们相当大，移动得非常缓慢。它们高度很低，完全没有发出任何声音。它们发出红光。灯光一起移动，好像它们编队飞行或以某种方式连接在一起，或者隐形什么的，我不知道。我不知道它们是什么。
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金：让我们来认识一下我们的嘉宾。
在得克萨斯州谢尔登的是史蒂夫·艾伦。他说他上周目击了UFO活动。顺便提一下，他是一名经验丰富的私人飞行员。
与我们同在的还有克劳德特·奥达姆。她和丈夫与史蒂夫一起在他们家时，目击了他们所说的UFO活动。
还有安吉莉亚·乔伊纳，她是斯蒂芬维尔当地报纸《帝国论坛报》的撰稿记者，她与几位目击者谈过话。
在纽约与我们在一起的是两位常客，当我们讨论这个话题时他们经常出现：纪录片制作人詹姆斯·福克斯。他制作了《突如其来》。他还在制作一部关于UFO的新电影，名为《超越蓝色》。
还有斯坦顿·弗里德曼，核物理学家，UFO研究员。他从1967年开始就一直在讲授”飞碟是真实的”这一主题。
好的，史蒂夫，让我们听听你的说法。带我们回顾一下你看到的情景。
艾伦：你好，拉里。
你今天下午好吗？
金：你好。
艾伦：是上周二。一周前。我们在山顶上烧灌木和杂物。我们向东看，看到一些非常明亮、闪烁的灯光以极高的速度向我们飞来。
它们——在靠近我们时开始减速。它们离地面大约3000英尺——最近时不到一英里。它们继续前进，向得克萨斯州斯蒂芬维尔飞去。它们基本上在斯蒂芬维尔上空停了下来。
它后面的灯光重新排列成垂直状态。突然，它们爆发出火焰，然后消失了。
十分钟后，灯光重新出现。那时我们看到两架军用喷气机，我们认为是追击的，在追赶它。它们向东返回，朝达拉斯/沃斯堡和核电站区域飞去。
金：克劳德特，你看到了什么？
克劳德特·奥达姆（称与丈夫于1月8日在得克萨斯州天空目击UFO）：实际上，我回到家——我给我们一个朋友打了电话。史蒂夫和迈克说他们看到了UFO，我不相信他们。所以我打电话给在外面另一个家伙。他说快跑出去看看你看到了什么。它们现在就在那里。
于是我跑了出去。朝着斯蒂芬维尔的方向，有非常明亮的橙色灯光，它们一起移动，但来回摆动。而且离地面很低。没有声音，但感觉距离并不远。那些灯光实在太亮了，几乎是水平的，而且……
金：没有声音？
奥达姆：没有，完全没有声音。
金：好的。
现在，安吉莉亚……
奥达姆：完全安静。不像飞机那样。
金：安吉莉亚，目击者们跟你说了什么？
安吉莉亚·乔伊纳（为《帝国论坛报》报道UFO事件）：我接到很多电话和邮件，人们讲述的故事非常相似。我反复听到的是，那些灯光有多亮。有些人说它们亮得几乎无法直视。同样，也没有声音，而且物体相当大。
所以我认为这些目击事件有很多一致性。
金：詹姆斯·福克斯，这些人看起来很正常，对吧？
詹姆斯·福克斯（UFO纪录片《突如其来》制作人）：是的。
金：你觉得他们看到了什么？
福克斯：我想问一个问题。
有没有可能——我不想冒犯任何人的智商——那可能是一颗彗星？
我只是想问——我不是想冒犯他们。我只是想听听你的回应，如果我暂时扮演一下唱反调的角色？
金：史蒂夫，你觉得是彗星吗？
艾伦：不，绝对不是。它离我们很近，不到一英里远。我们仔细观察了两三分钟。后来它回来时还有喷气机追赶，所以不可能是彗星。
金：斯坦顿，你怎么看？
斯坦顿·弗里德曼（UFO研究者、物理学家，认为飞碟是真实的）：嗯，肯定不是彗星。彗星不会在天空中快速移动。它们距离很远，移动速度……
金：那你觉得是什么？
弗里德曼：这让我想起1996年育空地区的一个案例。当时有31名目击者接受了采访，他们是在严冬中两三人一组开车行驶在克朗代克公路上。他们都描述了一个巨大的、无声的物体，带有非常明亮的灯光，在空中停留了相当长的时间。
只有一个地方可以停车。很多人停下来加油和吃饭。调查员马丁·贾塞克（注册土木工程师）能够进行三角测量。这个物体有半英里到一英里大小。这排除了任何常规飞行器。无声也排除了任何飞机之类的可能性。
金：那么，你的结论是什么？
弗里德曼：可能——我会称之为母舰。
金：母舰？
弗里德曼：嗯，太空母舰，听起来好点吗？
你知道，我们有巨大的航空母舰，上面有小飞机。我们有很多关于巨大飞船的报告——半英里到一英里大小的庞然大物——它们无声地缓慢移动，然后突然加速。
金：好的，你怎么看军方追赶它？
弗里德曼：嗯，这是标准做法。拉里，我不想这么说，听起来可能不爱国，但空军在UFO问题上撒谎了50年——实际上超过50年——有60年了。这符合一贯的做法。
金：出于什么目的？
弗里德曼：为了不让我们知道真相。
金：为什么？
弗里德曼：为什么？
他们想弄清楚它们的工作原理。他们担心别人先弄清楚。如果他们宣布一些UFO是外星飞船，我预计会推动一种地球人导向，而不是美国、中国或其他国家的导向。我认为没有哪个总统希望这样。
福克斯：我能插句话吗？
我去年11月在国家新闻俱乐部的一个小组讨论中问过同样的问题。我问一位比利时将军，为什么——实际上我问了很多人，为什么任何政府都不愿公开这些信息？
他说，这更多是关于我们不知道的东西。任何政府官员都很难宣布……
金：他声称不知情。
福克斯：嗯，确实有——有未知来源的飞行器可以自由飞行。
金：让我休息一下，稍后再回来。
其他嘉宾也会加入我们。
我们会尽力解决这个问题。
别走开。
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未确认男性：嗯，第三类接触。
未确认男性：它们来了。
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金：UFO之谜。
现在加入我们小组的是来自德克萨斯州达拉斯的肯·切里。肯是MUFON（互助UFO网络）的德克萨斯州主任。他的小组研究UFO现象。
好的，肯，你对这次事件怎么看？
肯·切里（互助UFO网络德克萨斯州主任）：你好，拉里。
嗯，到目前为止，我们认为这是自1997年凤凰城灯光事件以来最重要的大规模目击事件。
金：真的吗？切里：是的。我们在1月10日之后不久就开始收到报告，当时事件首次发生。在安吉莉亚在斯蒂芬维尔《论坛报》报道之前，我们已经收到了十几个报告。
很明显，这是一次非常重要的目击事件。
金：嗯。
切里：而且从那以后，我们又收到了许多额外的目击报告。
金：史蒂夫·艾伦，据你估计，这个飞行器的速度有多快？
艾伦：拉里，我们第一次看到它时，我认为它的速度大概在每小时2000到3000英里。很难判断。它朝我们飞来时非常快，但逐渐减速。就像我说的，当它到达斯蒂芬维尔时，基本上完全停住了。
金：斯坦，什么东西能移动得这么快却没有声音？
弗里德曼：因为它控制了边界层周围的气流。我们知道如何通过磁流体动力学控制系统做到这一点。这方面有很多机密技术。很多年前我做过文献检索，找到了900篇关于磁流体动力学研究的参考文献。其中90%是保密的。
金：克劳德特，这次事件后你比以前更害怕了吗？
你看到这个后害怕吗？
奥达姆：哦，一点也不。我只是非常好奇那是什么。
金：所以如果政府——如果政府出于恐惧隐瞒了什么，那是没有根据的？
你不害怕？
奥达姆：不，我不害怕。
金：安吉莉亚，你没看到它。
你相信吗？
乔伊纳：嗯，也许眼见为实。但当我——当我写完第一篇报道后接到电话时，我确实有点被吓到了。我想，天哪，这比我预想的还要大。所以当我开始听到所有描述时，确实有点诡异。我相信这让我——让我更加关注UFO以及周围发生的事情。我现在经常抬头看天空。
金：詹姆斯·福克斯，这么多年来我们一直听到这些故事，你觉得为什么——逻辑上——我们从未见过这些外星人？
没有任何东西出现过。没有……
福克斯：嗯……
金：我的意思是，我们看到天空中的景象，人们报告，然后客观的人说他们看到了，但没有任何进展。
福克斯：但问题是，你逼我猜测。我不知道。
金：当然。我们只能这样。
福克斯：嗯，不，但我不想猜测。但基于证据，我们有雷达确认的记录数据、视觉确认、着陆案例的痕迹证据，比如土壤样本分析、植物分析——所有这些——视觉确认在其他领域都是可信的。但出于某种原因，当应用于UFO领域时，它就不被相信了。
但确实有很多证据。我刚刚见过一位FAA官员——他有驾驶舱录音、雷达确认和视觉确认，所有这些都与雷达同步。我认为那是证据。
金：肯，如果他们在隐瞒，你觉得政府为什么隐瞒？
切里：嗯，我们看到了一些公众的反应，表明他们担心这意味着什么，他们是否安全等等。
但我确实认为，我们有这么多来自各行各业的人站出来作证，这表明人们不再那么害怕站出来。我们有牧场主、企业主、社区中备受尊敬的人站出来说，你知道，我们过去在这个地区见过这些东西，但不敢站出来。我认为，有了像你们这样负责任的新闻报道——起了不小的作用——人们不再那么害怕站出来了。
但恐惧，我想，是这件事一直对公众保密的首要原因。
金：我们稍作休息，回来后将探讨一个问题——为什么飞行员不发声？
他们是负责任的人。为什么我们听不到他们的声音？
别走开。
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盖坦：它们当时在舞动闪烁，但并非这种状态。它们就像……在移动。
不明身份男性：像灯光秀？
盖坦：嗯，是的，类似灯光秀。
艾伦：依我看，那个物体大约半英里宽、一英里长。无论它是什么，都极其庞大。
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金：在本小时末尾，一位持怀疑态度的美国空军退役飞行员将加入我们。
那么更多飞行员呢？
他们愿意站出来吗？
福克斯：拉里，这正是我想说的。去年十一月，有个人出现在国家新闻俱乐部——我刚给你的DVD里就有。1994年，一位法国航空飞行员目睹了约一英里宽的碟形飞行器。他在国家新闻俱乐部作证，还画了示意图。法国政府对此进行了调查。
没错，飞行员确实会站出来。还有另一位将军，曾是贾法里（音）的飞行员……
金：你想听听民众的声音吗？
福克斯：当然。这正是我想提的一点——我们正在制作一部名为《超越蓝天》的电影，正在寻找愿意站出来的军方和政府官员。可以通过……我们也在与菲夫·西明顿·莱斯利·基恩合作撰写《蓝天之外》一书。如果你谷歌搜索“Out of the Blue”，就能找到我们的网站。请与我联系，因为接下来三周我们带着摄制组在路上……
金：直接谷歌搜索“Out of the Blue”即可。
菲夫·西明顿是亚利桑那州前州长，他曾……
福克斯：是的。他正与纽约记者莱斯利·基恩合著此书。
金：斯坦顿，你认为在有生之年能得到答案吗——我是说真正的答案？
弗里德曼：我比他年长（笑声）。
金：你认为它会上《纽约时报》头版吗？
弗里德曼：会的。我仍是乐观主义者。拉里，我相信真相终将大白。可能需要很长时间。今年媒体态度已有重大转变。我的听众中有10%的人相信自己见过UFO，但90%的人没有报告。如果我们能扭转这个局面……
金：是的。
弗里德曼：（听不清）。
金：安吉莉亚，你受到了怎样的关注？
其他地方的媒体联系你了吗？
金：安吉莉亚？
乔伊纳：哦，是的。现在能听到了。确实有很多媒体联系我，远至日本、伦敦、加拿大，世界各地都有。
金：克劳黛特，现在有朋友觉得你是个怪人吗？
（笑声）
奥达姆：有几个。家人朋友——倒不觉得是怪人，只是好奇我们看到了什么。
金：史蒂夫，有人表示怀疑吗？
艾伦：没有。认识我的人都知道我确实看到了东西。他们甚至每天下午开飞机搜索天空。
金：你是私人飞行员，对吗？
艾伦：是的，先生。
金：飞行时见过类似现象吗？
艾伦：绝对没有。从未见过任何接近的东西。
金：肯，你认为我们最终会知道全部真相吗——就像我常说的——它会登上《纽约时报》头版吗？
切里：我希望如此。这类大规模目击事件似乎越来越频繁。过去人们要么想忘记、忽视或嘲笑，现在则更受重视。我认为这正在为公众了解真相铺路。某种程度上确实如此……
（交叉对话）
金：一个一个来。
詹姆斯？
福克斯：好的，我快速说一点。我在国会大厅花了一周时间，向每位众议员分发《蓝天之外》副本。几年前与几位议员会面时，他们表示对此事感兴趣且态度真诚，但说不能独自冒险，需要选民施压才能举行国会听证会。
不明身份男性：没错。
福克斯：……所以关键在于民众联系代表，要求他们调查整个现象。只要举行公开的国会听证会，这件事就能解决。
金：斯坦顿，当权者在害怕什么？
弗里德曼：我认为他们害怕承认60年来忽视了千禧年最大的新闻。没人愿意说“我们搞砸了”——《纽约时报》、《华盛顿邮报》都是如此。
不明身份男性：没错。
弗里德曼：其次，宗教方面存在很大顾虑。杰里·福尔韦尔和帕特·罗伯逊声称我们是宇宙中唯一的智慧生命。他们就像失去宗教桨板的船——杰里已经在那条船上了（笑声）。
弗里德曼：但……这涉及整体影响，关乎我们如何看待自身。人们常说“为什么他们不降落在白宫草坪上？”
美国总统——我知道这很惊人——但美国总统不代表60亿地球人。有时他甚至不代表3亿美国人。
你说“那就举行选举”，这是民主做法。
但谁代表地球发声？让中国13亿票数对抗美国3亿？
绝不可能。
所以存在严肃的考量：我们该何去何从？
在这个星球上，民族主义是唯一规则。这无需我多言。
这会改变现状吗？
银河联邦不允许单个国家加入，就像联合国不允许单个城市加入一样，你说呢？
所以这里涉及重大影响。
金：哇！
福克斯：我快速补充一点……
不明身份女性：拉里……
金：稍等。
福克斯：好的，快速说。很多人对地球事务充满热情。我同意这一点。但与此同时，如果有证据表明我们并非宇宙中唯一的智慧生命，而这份证据被隐瞒，我认为这是不可接受的。
金：肯，是你想发言吗？
切里：是的。我认为我们正接近全面公开。多国政府正在公开档案——巴西、英国、澳大利亚、日本。最近三位内阁成员表达了他们对UFO的信仰。有趣的是，他们现在有卫星在月球上空交叉拍摄，照片中出现了一些异常物体。突然三位高级内阁成员表示“我们相信UFO”。
金：好的。
史蒂夫、克劳黛特、安吉莉亚，谢谢你们。
肯·切里，谢谢。
回来后，詹姆斯·福克斯和斯坦顿·弗里德曼将加入三位新嘉宾。
接下来是另一个引人入胜的故事。
11年前，凤凰城上空是否出现过UFO？
回来后我们将与目击者对话。
（视频片段开始）
沃尔夫·布利策（《局势室》主持人）：墨西哥空军成员认为可能是UFO。飞行员在墨西哥南部靠近墨西哥湾地区录制了11个不明飞行物。
不明身份男性：那不是气象气球、飞机或导弹。是别的东西——我们不知道是什么。
不明身份女性：政府喜欢掌握权力，而保密是强大的控制手段。
（视频片段结束）
（广告插播）
金：继续与我们在一起的是纪录片《蓝天之外》导演詹姆斯·福克斯、核物理学家兼UFO研究员斯坦顿·弗里德曼。现在加入我们的是凤凰城的莫妮卡·布什。她说在1997年3月13日目睹了巨大的回旋镖状光阵，即所谓的“凤凰城之光事件”。前亚利桑那州州长菲夫·西明顿（音）称当晚也目睹了巨大的异界物体。与莫妮卡一起的是她的妹妹艾琳·沃森，她也目睹了凤凰城之光。在亚利桑那州图森市的是天文学家、图森怀疑论者协会创始人、美国空军退役飞行员詹姆斯·麦加哈。
莫妮卡，带我们回顾一下。1997年3月13日你看到了什么？
莫妮卡·布什（凤凰城UFO目击者）：你好，拉里。那晚我其实在我父母家。他们住在凤凰城骆驼背山脚下。当时我正在打电话，突然看到一排巨大的回旋镖形灯光出现在山顶上方。事实上，第一次看到时我还以为是救援行动，因为常有徒步者被困在骆驼背山上。
当我意识到那个物体的庞大体积后，我立刻跑进屋叫来尽可能多的家人，想一起弄清楚那到底是什么。我们集思广益想搞明白它是什么。
金：你害怕吗？
布什：一开始完全不害怕，整个过程都没觉得害怕。我想当时我始终相信自己能搞清楚那是什么。
未具名男性：也没有声音。
金：好的，确实没有声音。艾琳·沃森（凤凰城UFO目击者）：是的，完全寂静无声。
金：艾琳，你当时是什么反应？
沃森：那景象实在太惊人了。我更想知道那是什么、是什么样的飞行器。对我来说最震撼的是它的寂静。这个空中巨物的大小——我把它比作两艘邮轮，简直像悬浮的城市，却没有任何声响。这太不可思议了。
金：它后来去了哪里？
布什：它直接飞过——我们观察了大约四分钟。最后它向南坠落，消失在房子后方，很快就不见了。
金：我想很多人报告了这件事，对吗？
布什：是的，我们听说有数万人看到了。
金：官方有什么反应吗，艾琳？
沃森：说来有趣。我当时没多想。对我来说，我并没把它当成UFO。我以为第二天新闻就会报道这个天空中的庞然大物到底是什么。但后来再也没有人提起过这件事。
所以我更多是感到尴尬。当时我高中快毕业了，之后就一直没跟别人提，怕别人觉得我疯了。
金：詹姆斯？
福克斯：艾琳，你好吗？
沃森：很好，你呢？
福克斯：很好。我想快速问一下，是你母亲打电话给当地机场的吗？因为那个物体似乎正朝那个方向飞去。
沃森：是的。
福克斯：机场怎么说？是谁打的电话？
沃森：我母亲打的电话，因为我家上空是禁飞区。她首先担心的是这个。结果机场立刻给了她一个西雅图UFO目击报告机构的电话。我们都很惊讶：为什么要联系他们？
福克斯：所以机场说他们什么都没看到？
沃森：是的，他们说雷达上没有任何显示。
福克斯：明白了。
金：詹姆斯·麦加哈是天文学家、图森怀疑论者协会创始人、退役美国空军飞行员。我知道你是怀疑论者。你认为他们看到了什么？
詹姆斯·麦加哈（UFO怀疑论者、天文学家）：这取决于他们看到的时间。那晚有两组灯光：大约8点30分有一组，10点10分有另一组。8点30分那组是五架飞机编队飞过该区域。
金：别笑。
麦加哈：这很清楚，因为我有文件证据。10点10分的灯光是凤凰城西南约100英里处靶场投放的照明弹。
金：那么——
麦加哈：这些照明弹非常明亮，有两百万烛光亮度，能照亮地面直径一英里的区域。它们挂在降落伞上，能在空中停留相当长时间。
金：它们用于什么目的？
麦加哈：用于夜间飞行训练，为夜间攻击照亮地面，让飞机看清目标。这就是它们的用途。
金：好吧。詹姆斯，你觉得他错了吗？
福克斯：我有个问题必须问你——你知道州长法夫·西蒙顿亲自调查过此事，并与卢克空军基地的将军谈过吗？我相信他做了各种调查。为什么他们不告诉他人们（包括他自己）看到的是军用照明弹？这说不通啊。
那是个飞行器，不是灯光。所有人都在谈论飞行器。我不明白你怎么能认为——它没有声音。A-10疣猪攻击机噪音很大。
金：让他回应。詹姆斯？
麦加哈：问题在于人们看到空中的灯光后如何解读。他们是否把这些灯光连接起来想象成一个物体？人们不是训练有素的观察者。看到奇怪物体时经常误判，产生错觉。
至于卢克空军基地，他们与此无关。投放照明弹的A-10来自马里兰州国民警卫队，当时在图森戴维斯-蒙森空军基地执行临时任务。
福克斯：有个问题必须问艾琳。艾琳，是谁亲眼看到那个飞行器起飞的？
沃森：是我。
福克斯：好的，谢谢。
沃森：我和两个兄弟一起站在外面观看。首先我想澄清一点：我当时站在飞行器下方抬头看，星星都被遮住了。我看到了一个实体。除非你当时在场，否则你根本无法——
金：我们先休息一下，稍后继续与莫妮卡、艾琳、詹姆斯、斯坦顿和另一位詹姆斯讨论。别走开。
（视频片段开始）
未具名男性：我有证据表明坠毁确实发生在这里。
未具名女性：红光笼罩着整个物体，看起来像个圆盘。
未具名男性：有人说我看到了B-2轰炸机。我的回答是：我们所有40架B-2轰炸机都能停在那飞行器的机翼上。
未具名男性：我上前摸了摸那个飞行器，它是温热的。
（广告插播）
金：詹姆斯·麦加哈，这两位聪明的年轻女士莫妮卡·布什和艾琳·沃森说这个飞行器从她们房子上方经过，花了五分钟时间。她们抬头看到了它。你是在否认她们所见吗？
麦加哈：我没有否认她们看到了灯光。我是说她们误判了那些灯光。那晚确实有五架飞机编队飞行，打开了编队灯。我实际上有录像——我有那五盏灯编队飞行的录像带。还有一位通过大型天文望远镜观察的目击者证实那是独立的飞机。
金：莫妮卡，你怎么看？
布什：那绝对不是五架飞机。那是一个带有多个灯光的飞行器。它在我们房子上方停留了很长时间，有五个人同时目击。
金：艾琳，没有声音。
沃森：完全寂静。除非有一英里长的飞机——那些灯光是连在一起的。所以归根结底，我们抬头看到的是一个物体。
麦加哈：你怎么知道它们是连在一起的？
沃森：因为我们抬头看时，透过它看不到星星。这就是为什么我惊叹不已。
麦加哈：你有资格在夜间观察天空吗？
沃森：没有。
麦加哈：你能识别星星吗？
沃森：我对这个话题不太关心。我看到了我所看到的。我真希望你当时也在场。我真心希望你能亲眼看到。
福克斯：等等，詹姆斯。再问艾琳一个问题。你们看到这个东西起飞了？
沃森：是的。
福克斯：你看到它起飞了。说说看。
沃森：大概在我们房子以南一英里处。我和两个兄弟目睹了它呈V形，像回旋镖一样，然后稍微移动了一下就消失了。没有烟雾，没有痕迹。
金：斯坦顿，你怎么看詹姆斯的不同意见？
弗里德曼：我认为他一开始就认定没有飞碟、没有外星飞船。任何认为自己看到的人都是错的。他是合格的飞行员，他懂行。他应该去和国家航空异常现象报告中心的人谈谈。他们收集了3000多份飞行员目击报告，很多都有多个目击者、雷达和视觉证据，发生在白天。
金：你为什么否认呢，詹姆斯？詹姆斯，你为什么否认？
麦加哈：我不是在否认。我只是在审视——单纯地审视证据。首先，我得说，飞行员也不是训练有素的观察者。他们受训是为了驾驶飞机。这点要明确，飞行员在识别空中物体时也经常出错。
其次，问题在于，空中的光点是否应被解释为来自另一个世界的飞船。造成空中光点的原因有成百上千种，包括自然现象、天文现象、大气现象和人为现象。
金：但那些女孩们说——
麦加哈：这些都与外星飞船毫无关系。
金：但那些女孩们说，她们看到一艘巨大的飞行器飞过她们家上空，花了五分钟才完全通过。
麦加哈：嗯，那些——当晚飞行的飞机以低速在高空飞行。它们不会发出任何噪音。我们来明确一下她们的说法。她们说，一架宽达一英里的飞行器飞越了凤凰城机场区域——美国最繁忙的机场之一——宽达一英里，却没有导致任何航班改道，雷达上也看不到它。
沃森：没错，所以我们立刻给机场打了电话。
布什：而且我们和其他一万人都看到了。
金：我得插播广告了。谢谢莫妮卡。谢谢艾琳。詹姆斯将继续和我们在一起。詹姆斯·麦加哈、斯坦顿·弗里德曼和詹姆斯·福克斯将完成我们的讨论。现在，让我们连线安德森·库珀，他是整点新闻《AC360》的主持人。安德森，有什么消息？
CNN主持人安德森·库珀：拉里，在360节目的整点时刻，总统竞选的两个重要里程碑正在倒计时。几小时后，内华达州的党团会议和南卡罗来纳州的共和党初选将开始。过去这一周告诉我们，总统竞选仍然像一个月前一样充满变数。也许明天，我们会更接近找出谁真正有希望获得党内提名。
我们将查看最新的民调。我们将关注领先的候选人正在哪里以及如何做最后的冲刺，并仔细研究福音派选票如何可能成为南卡罗来纳州的关键。
今晚还有独家新照片和信息，关于失踪的海军陆战队员涉嫌杀害这名年轻女性、同为海军陆战队员的玛丽亚·劳特巴赫（音）的案件。这些内容今晚只在360节目中播出，当局希望这些信息能帮助抓捕仍在逃的嫌疑人凯撒·劳里安（音）。所有这些以及更多内容将在整点时刻播出。
金：安德森·库珀，东部时间晚上10点，太平洋时间晚上7点。我们马上回来。别走开。
（视频片段开始）
身份不明的女性：哦，我的天！我尽量把它保持在画面里，但它就是——
身份不明的男性：看起来像。不管它是什么，它在燃烧。
身份不明的男性：爷爷，有人吗？你看到人了吗？他说，亲爱的，他说它们只是可怜的小生物。
（视频片段结束）（广告插播）
金：留在我们节目中的是詹姆斯·福克斯和斯坦顿·弗里德曼，在纽约。还有在图森的詹姆斯·麦加哈。麦加哈先生，你对德克萨斯州的目击事件怎么看？
麦加哈：这些目击事件是人们看到光点的典型例子。他们确实看到了空中的光点。但他们对这些光点的解释——如果没有人提到“UFO”这个词，暗示是外星飞船，我们不会坐在这里讨论这些光点。
显然，他们看到了光点。需要注意的是，斯蒂芬斯维尔位于空中交通走廊上，既有低空走廊，也有横跨全国的高空走廊。它也在通往德克萨斯州达拉斯/沃斯堡的进场航线上，并且位于两个军事行动区（MOA）的东北部，这些区域有飞机活动。事实上，当晚确实有军用飞机在这些MOA中活动。
除此之外，当晚的大气条件也容易引发其他大气现象，比如日晕。实际上，当天下午有人拍了一张照片，说看起来像某些人看到的东西，结果那是一个日晕。
金：斯坦顿，当你听到像詹姆斯这样的人提出反对意见时，你也会审视他的说法吗？你会调查他的观点吗？
弗里德曼：是的，我会。事实上，在一本新书中，我展示了某些有争议的文件——我找到了一堆伪造的文件以及真实的文件。当然，我只对真实的文件感兴趣，但我必须去核实詹姆斯提供的那些虚假解释。空军曾表示他们没有飞行任何东西。记住，是他们非常强烈地否认了这一点，而不是我们。我们对此一无所知。
拉里，这真的很可悲，例如，一位空军将军曾表示，可能影响国家安全的报告不属于“蓝皮书计划”系统。这是空军将军的正式声明。这导致了旧“蓝皮书计划”的关闭。你没有看到媒体抓住这一点，那些好的案例，那些可能影响国家安全的案例。它们才是我们唯一关心的。
金：詹姆斯·福克斯，像詹姆斯这样的反对者有没有对你产生影响？
福克斯：你知道，这让我很沮丧，因为这就像这样。听听那些正在说话的人的证词，并回应他们实际在说什么。至少，你知道，那才是明智的对话。
金：詹姆斯·麦加哈，你完全否定了外星人和UFO的想法吗？
麦加哈：不是否定外星人。外星生命当然是可能的。问题在于它们是否访问过地球。根本没有证据表明外星飞船曾访问过地球。
福克斯：说起来容易。
麦加哈：是的，说起来容易，因为没有证据。科学界会同意这一点。我是一名科学家。我研究夜空。我每晚都拍摄夜空图像。
顺便说一句，让我评论一下这个空军问题，这有点复杂。
金：我得插播广告，让你评论，因为我们时间不多了。我们马上回来。别走开。
（视频片段开始）
身份不明的男性：在英格兰西南部，就在萨默塞特郡外，有另一次目击事件。它被录像带捕捉到了。
我们把这段录像带到卢卡斯电影公司的特效部门“工业光魔”进行分析。
身份不明的男性：它正朝这边来。
身份不明的男性：如果你给我一张只有天空的背景板，然后说我们想让你把这张飞碟图像合成进去，那在技术上是非常困难的。我确信这个物体在拍摄时就在那里。
（广告插播）
金：詹姆斯·麦加哈，请快速谈谈空军的事。
麦加哈：基本上，当人们询问空军时，他们会找公共事务官员试图了解发生了什么。很多时候，他们会问某人，问飞行单位，有时他们没有问对机构等等。我已经调查过这件事，事实上，当晚有八架F-16在MOA中飞行。我还没能证实这一点，但我怀疑他们当晚还投掷了照明弹，但目前我无法确认。
金：好的。詹姆斯·福克斯。
福克斯：是的，我想说，詹姆斯，我把这个问题直接提给你。如果你在某个地方，为什么我们不能说，你知道吗，我们不知道那是什么？为什么我们不能就这么说？为什么我们必须为今天存在的每一次目击事件找到一个平淡无奇的解释？为什么所有这些来自世界各地的合格雷达操作员、飞行员、高级军事和政府官员，为什么每一个案例都必须有一个传统或平淡无奇的解释？为什么我们不能耸耸肩说我们不知道？
金：詹姆斯？
麦加哈：因为没有证据。应该问的问题是，如果这是一个如此有趣的话题，为什么科学家不研究它？当我向天文学家同行提起这个话题时，他们对此嗤之以鼻。
弗里德曼：天文学家也曾嘲笑过许多其他事情，比如登月，比如太空旅行。他们曾说过火星的表面是某种样子，但事实并非如此。天文学在仓促下结论、然后不得不承认错误并忘记之前说过的话方面有着悠久的历史，当然。
福克斯：康曼报告（音），斯坦顿。
弗里德曼：我是一名科学家。我和许多科学家谈过。我和700个听众谈过，其中很多是科学团体。他们很感兴趣。你说没有证据。我说我们有4000个物理痕迹案例。我们有3000个飞行员目击案例。我们有多个目击者雷达视觉案例。你还想要什么？
我们有一个坠毁的飞碟。我没有飞碟的碎片、尸体、中子星碎片或超新星碎片。
福克斯：斯坦，康曼报告，所有科学家，康曼报告上的科学家小组。他们是科学家。
金：你在说什么？
（交叉对话）
金：詹姆斯·麦加哈，你是明确表示没有UFO吗？
麦加哈：我是说没有证据表明存在UFO。UFO基本上是一个神话和魔法迷信的信仰体系，许多人认为这些外星飞船在这里飞行。根本没有证据表明它们存在。这并不意味着外星文明不可能飞到这里。只是没有证据。在证据出现之前，科学界不会对此感兴趣。
金：那么这些人是没有看到他们看到的东西，还是不知道他们看到了什么，或者他们误解了？
麦加哈：他们误解了自己看到的东西。他们不是训练有素的观察者。他们让自己的感知偏见影响了所见。此外，他们还对此进行了错误解读。
金：詹姆斯·福克斯、斯坦顿·弗里德曼、詹姆斯·麦加哈，我们稍后会继续讨论这个话题。祝你在法国好运。本周末，请查看CNN.com/LarryKing。你可以下载我们最新的播客，其中有才华横溢的奎恩·拉提法和黛安·基顿。你也可以给即将到来的嘉宾发邮件，参与我们的快速投票。一切尽在CNN.com/LarryKing。
现在，不多说了，如果其他星球上有生命，他会在那里报道——安德森·库珀在《AC 360》。安德森？
如需订购此文字记录的录像，请拨打800-CNN-NEWS或使用我们位于www.voxant.com的安全在线订购表格。
English Version
中文版
简介：2008年1月8日，美国得克萨斯州斯蒂芬维尔发生了一起重大UFO目击事件。UFO调查组织MUFON发布了一份77页的报告，分析了雷达记录与目击者证词，发现雷达曾捕捉到以近2000英里时速移动的物体。报告还指出，其中一个物体曾飞向美国总统布什的牧场，但未解释原因。
On January 8, 2008 in Stephenville, Texas, one of the larger UFO sightings in the United States occurred. The UFO investigative organization Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) released a 77-page report on the sighting. MUFON is a UFO investigative organization in the United States. Founded in 1969, it now has 3,000 members and is headquartered in Newport Beach, California.
The Incident (as reported)
The MUFON report, entitled “Special Research Report Stephenville, Texas” was written by Glen Schulze and Ropert Powell. Shulze has radar experience from working at the White Sands Missile Range. Powell has a chemistry degree and has extensive experience with semiconductors from working for Advanced Micro Devices.
The report is an analysis of radar records from the Federal Aviation Administration and the National Weather Service, obtained through several Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests, and comparing them to witness accounts.
Shulze/Powell concluded that the radar data confirms the witness observations of an object, as well as the Air Force’s statement that said ten aircraft were operating in the area. They say that it is too difficult to say what the witnesses saw, but that there was something there. Twice, they say, radar picked up an object travelling at nearly 2,000 mph, and at other times it showed a slow moving object.
George W. Bush and Germany’s Angela Merkel in front of Prairie Chapel Ranch in November 2007.
Much media attention has been focused on the report’s observation that radar records show one of two objects moving directly toward the Prairie Chapel Ranch in Crawford. This is the home of United States President George W. Bush, which has been nicknamed the Western White House. They did not draw any conclusion as to why such movement was observed.
The authors also concluded that military air activity was heavy at the time, but that the radar records show no overt action toward the unknown object. They express concern about the possibilty that this could have been a terrorist aircraft with no transponder.
Shulze/Powell stated that they felt that they had been stonewalled in some of their FOIA requests by some government agencies. They encouraged the government to more readily provide more information about the incident.
The Stephenville incident on January 8, saw dozens of witnesses reporting a large object in the evening sky that hovered above the community before it took off at high speed. Steve Allen, a pilot, observed the object from the ground and described it as being a half-mile with flashing strobe lights. He also said that it was pursued by two fighter jets, when it disappeared at a speed he estimated to be 3,000 mph.
“I don’t know if it was a biblical experience or somebody from a different universe or whatever but it was definitely not from around these parts,” Allen said.
Another witness was local law enforcement officer Leroy Gateman who reported it as a red glowing object suspended 3,000 feet in the air. “It was so fast I couldn’t track it with my binoculars,” said Gateman.
Rick Sorrells says he saw the object while deer hunting in the woods. “You look at the trees, and it was right here,” he told ABC News. He estimated it to be the length of “three or four football fields,” though he could not be entirely sure due to his vantage point.
Sorrells has later claimed that military helicopters have since overflown his property at low altitude and that he has been getting strange phone calls. He also claims that an unknown man came to his door, even once told him that,”Son we have the same caliber weapons you have, but we have more of them.”, after Sorrells grabbed his rifle, and, “You need to shut your mouth about what you saw.”
“I’m trying to decide whether or not to open the door,” Sorrells said to the Empire-Tribune. “We’re just standing there face to face looking at each other. I’m thinking he’s dressed for the elements and the dogs are raising such a ruckus he must know he’s in danger of being caught. That’s when I realized he wanted me to see him.” The man then turned away and walked into the woods.
The United States Air Force initially said witnesses must have seen reflections coming from commercial airliners. However, they later clarified that ten F-16 Fighting Falcons had been on a night-time training mission in the area on January 8.
“In the interest of public awareness, Air Force Reserve Command Public Affairs realized an error was made regarding the reported training activity of military aircraft,” said the statement.
According to Air Force spokesperson Karl Lewis, the aircraft were from the 457th Fighter Squadron and the error in the initial report was due to an internal communications problem between offices at the base.
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
UFOS: Questions & Controversy
Aired January 18, 2008 – 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEROY GAITAN, ERATH COUNTY CONSTABLE: They were dancing around and they were flickering.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Tonight, strange sights in the night skies over Texas fuel other worldly questions and controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are unidentified flying objects.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The military denies it has anything to do with this.
STEVE ALLEN, SAYS HE SAW UFO ACTIVITY IN TEXAS SKIES JANUARY 8TH: It was humongous, whatever it was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Close encounters and UFOs — do you believe alien beings are out there?
Do you believe they’ve come to earth?
We’ll hear from eyewitnesses, investigators and experts next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening.
Last week several people in Stephenville, Texas, a small rural town of about 15,000 70 miles southwest of Fort Worth, witnessed what many are calling a UFO.
So what were those strange lights in the sky?
We sent a LARRY KING LIVE crew to Stephenville, Texas this week.
Let’s hear what some people told us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: We look off this way. We have some lights approaching at a high rate of speed. They came within probably a mile of us, about 3,000 foot over the ground. Very unusual lights, not from around here, went past us toward Stephenville. The lights reconfigured and turned into flames and then it disappeared.
It came back by this way and it had two military jets in pursuit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I looked back to the southwest and there was a very bright light. A couple of seconds later, the second light came on. The next day, a friend of mine calls and tells me about a UFO sighting that had come over my house. I’m not saying I saw a UFO, but with all the reports from everybody else, apparently that’s what I saw.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They came right across the sky, across the northern edge of Stephenville, Texas, which I’m two blocks from the courthouse right here. They were quite large and moved quite slowly. They were at low altitude and made absolutely no noise at all. They were glowing red. The lights were moving together, as though they were in formation or attached together in some way and invisibly or something, I don’t know. And I don’t know what they were.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Let’s meet our panel.
In Sheldon, Texas is Steve Allen. He says he witnessed UFO activity last week. He’s, by the way, an experienced private pilot.
With us, as well, is Claudette Odam. She and her husband were with Steve at their home when they witnessed what they say was UFO activity.
Also there is Angelia Joiner, staff writer for the “Empire- Tribune,” the local newspaper in Stephenville, who has talked to several witnesses.
Here with us in New York, two regular guests on this program when we deal with this topic, James Fox, the documentary filmmaker. He did “Out of the Blue”. He’s also working on a new film about UFOs called “Beyond The Blue.”
And Stanton Friedman, nuclear physicist, UFO researcher. He’s been lecturing on the topic “flying saucers are real” for — since 1967.
All right, Steve let’s hear it. Walk us through what you saw.
ALLEN: Hi, Larry.
How are you doing this afternoon?
KING: Hi.
ALLEN: It was last Tuesday. It was a week ago. We was up on the top of the hill burning some brush and debris. We looked off to the east, saw some very bright, brilliant flashing lights headed toward us at a very high rate of speed.
They got — it started slowing down once it got closer to us. They was about 3,000 foot above the ground — less than a mile away at the closest time. It continued on and it went toward Stephenville, Texas. And they basically came to a stop right over Stephenville.
The lights in the back of it reconfigured to a vertical scenario. And all of a sudden they burst into flames and it disappeared.
Ten minutes later, the lights reappeared. And that’s when the we saw the two military jets that we supposed in pursuit, chasing it. And they headed back east, toward the Dallas/Fort Worth and the nuclear plant area.
KING: Claudette, what did you see?
CLAUDETTE ODAM, SAYS SHE & HUSBAND SAW UFOS IN TEXAS SKIES JANUARY 8TH: Actually, I got home and I came home — I had called a friend of ours. And Steve and Mike had said that they’d seen a UFO and I didn’t believe them. So I called the other guy that was out here. And he said run outside and see what you saw. They’re out there right now.
So I ran outside. And toward Stephenville, it was like bright, bright orange lights that were moving together, but back and forth. And it was real low to the ground. And there was no noise, but it didn’t seem like it was that far away. And, again, the lights were just so bright and kind of horizontal and…
KING: There was no noise?
ODAM: No, noise.
KING: All right.
Now, Angelia…
ODAM: It was completely quiet. It wasn’t like an airplane.
KING: Angelia, what are some witnesses telling you?
ANGELIA JOINER, COVERING UFO STORY FOR “EMPIRE-TRIBUNE”: I’m getting very, very similar stories from people that have called in and e-mailed me. And the thing that I hear over and over and over is how bright the lights were. Some people say they were so bright, you just almost couldn’t look at them. And the same thing about no noise and that it was quite large.
So I think there’s been a lot of consistency in the spottings.
KING: James Fox, these people are not — they seem very normal people, right?
JAMES FOX, MAKER OF UFO DOCUMENTARY “OUT OF THE BLUE”: Yes.
KING: What do you think they saw?
FOX: I’d like to ask a question.
Is there any chance — and I don’t want to insult anyone’s intelligence — that it could have been a comet?
I just want to — I’m not trying to insult them. I’m just asking what’s your response to that, if I play devil’s advocate for a minute?
KING: Steve, do you think it was a comet?
ALLEN: No, by no stretch of the imagination. It was very close to us, within — like I said, it was closer than a mile away. We watched it intensely for over two or three minutes. And then when it came back by with the jets chasing it, not much of a chance of that.
KING: Stanton, what do you think?
STANTON FRIEDMAN, UFO RESEARCHER & PHYSICIST, SAYS FLYING SAUCERS ARE REAL: Well, it certainly couldn’t have been a comet. Comets don’t move rapidly in the sky. They’re a long distance away. They move…
KING: So what do you think it was?
FRIEDMAN: It reminds me of a case up in the Yukon in 1996, where a total of 31 witnesses were interviewed by a civil engineer — that were in groups of two and three driving on the Klondike Highway in the middle of winter. And they all described this huge thing in the sky that was silent, that had very bright lights on it, that hung around for quite awhile.
There was only one place to stop. A lot of them had stopped for gas and food. And so the investigator, Martin Jasek, a registered civil engineer, was able to triangulate. This thing was between half a mile and a mile big. So that rules out any conventional aircraft. The silence rules out, as you know, any airplanes, anything like that.
KING: So, what’s your conclusion?
FRIEDMAN: Probably — I’ll call it a mother ship.
KING: A mother ship?
FRIEDMAN: Well, a space carrier, does that sound better?
You know, we have aircraft carriers which are huge and little small airplanes on it. We have a number of reports of huge craft — big monsters, half a mile to a mile, that move silently and slowly and then fast.
KING: All right, what do you make of the military chasing it?
FRIEDMAN: Well, that’s standard practice. Larry, I hate to say this and it sounds unpatriotic, but the Air Force has lied about UFOs for 50 — more than 50 — for 60 years, actually. And this would be in keeping with that.
KING: For what purpose?
FRIEDMAN: To keep us from knowing what’s going on.
KING: Why?
FRIEDMAN: Why?
They want to figure out how they work. They worry about somebody else figuring out how they work. If they were to announce some UFOs are alien spacecraft, I would expect there would be a push toward an Earthling orientation, as opposed to American, Chinese, whatever. I don’t think any president wants that.
FOX: Can I inject?
I asked this exact question at this panel that we just did last — in November at the National Press Club. And I asked a general from Belgium why is it — I mean I asked, actually, a number of people, why would any one government want to just not disclose this information?
And he said, you know, it’s more of a question of what we don’t know. And it’s difficult for any government official to announce…
KING: He claimed ignorance.
FOX: Well, there are — there’s craft of unknown origin that can fly around impunity.
KING: Let me get a break and come back with more.
Other guests will be joining us.
We’ll try to resolve this.
Don’t go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, close encounter for the third kind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They’re coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: The mystery of the UFOs.
Joining our panel now from Dallas, Texas is Ken Cherry. Ken is Texas state director of MUFON. That’s the Mutual UFO Network. His group studies the UFO phenomenon.
All right, what do you make of this incident, Ken?
KEN CHERRY, TEXAS DIRECTOR, MUTUAL UFO NETWORK: Hi, Larry.
Well, so far we think this is the most significant mass sighting since 1997 and the Phoenix lights.
KING: Really? CHERRY: Yes. We first started receiving reports shortly after January the 10th, when the — when it first occurred. And we had received a dozen or more before the story broke there that Angelia wrote in the Stephenville “Tribune.”
It was pretty clear from that that this was a very significant sighting.
KING: Hmm.
CHERRY: And it’s just — we’ve received numerous additional sighting reports since then.
KING: Steve, in your estimation, Steve Allen, how fast was it — was this vehicle going?
ALLEN: When we first saw it, Larry, I think it was probably running around 2,000 to 3,000 miles an hour. It’s hard to judge. It was coming at us very fast, but it was gradually slowing down. And like I said, by the time it got into Stephenville, it came — it basically came to a complete stop.
KING: Stan how could something move that fast and make no sound?
FRIEDMAN: Because you control the flow of the air around the boundary layer. We know how to do that with the magneto-aerodynamic control system. And there is a lot of classified technology about that. I had a literature search done many years ago and we got 900 references to magneto-aerodynamic research. Ninety percent were classified.
KING: Claudette, does this make you more frightened now than before this incident?
Are you frightened now that you’ve seen this?
ODAM: Oh, no not at all. I’m just real curious as to what it was.
KING: So if the government — if the government is covering up something based on fear, that’s unwarranted?
You’re not afraid?
ODAM: No, I’m not afraid.
KING: Angelia, you didn’t see it.
Do you believe it?
JOINER: Well, maybe it is seeing is believing. But when I — when I got the calls after doing the first story, I did get a little spoofed. I thought oh my gosh, this is bigger than what I even dreamed it could be. So it was a little spooky when I started hearing all the accounts. And I believe it has made — made me take more notice of UFOs and exactly what’s going on around me. I’m looking up in the sky now. KING: James Fox, in all the years we’ve been hearing about this and stories about this how come, logically, do you think?
How come we’ve never met one of these aliens?
Nothing’s ever come forward. Nothing…
FOX: Well…
KING: I mean we see the sights in the sky and people report it and then objective people say they saw it but nothing…
FOX: Well, here’s the…
KING: It doesn’t go anywhere.
FOX: Here’s the thing, though. I mean you’re forcing me to speculate. I have no idea.
KING: Of course. That’s all we can do.
FOX: Well, no but I don’t want to speculate. But, I mean, based on the evidence, we’ve got recorded data from radar confirmation, visual confirmation, landing case trace evidence, you know, soil sample analysis, plant analysis — all these things — visual confirmation that would work with anything else. But for some reason, when you apply it to the field of UFOs, it’s not credible.
But there is a lot of evidence out there. I mean I just met with an FAA official that — he had cockpit recordings and radar confirmation and visual confirmation all, you know, synced with the radar of these things. And I — I consider that evidence.
KING: Ken, if they’re hiding it, why do you think the government is hiding it?
CHERRY: Well, I think we’ve had some of the reactions from the public that show that they are concerned about what this means, whether they are safe and whatnot.
But I do think, though, that the fact that we have had so many witnesses come forward across every spectrum of people that it does show that folks are less afraid to come forward. We’ve had ranch owners, business owners, highly respected people in the community that have come forward and said, you know, we have seen these things in the past in this area and we were afraid to come forward. And I think with responsible journalism like have you done — no small part — people are less afraid to come forward.
But fear, I guess, is the number one reason why this has been held back from the public.
KING: We’ll take a break and when we come back, we’ll ask why not pilots?
They’re responsible people. Why don’t we hear from them?
Don’t go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GAITAN: They were dancing around and they were flickering. But they weren’t doing this. They were like, you know, just moving.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like a light show?
GAITAN: Well, yes, similar to a light show.
ALLEN: I’d say it was about a half a mile wide and about a mile long. It was humongous, whatever it was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: At the bottom of the hour, we’ll be joined by a retired U.S. Air Force pilot who is a skeptic.
What about more pilots?
Do they come forward?
FOX: Well, that’s what I was going to say, Larry. There’s a guy in here that was at the National Press Club last November — which I just gave you this DVD. But Deboc, 1994, an Air France pilot, witnessed a saucer-shaped craft roughly a mile across. He testified at the National Press Club about this. He did a little illustration. And it was investigated by the French government.
Yes, so pilots definitely come forward. And there’s, you know, there’s another general who was a pilot in Jafari (ph) that…
KING: Do you want to hear from people?
FOX: I do. Yes, I would like it — that’s one thing I’d like to mention, is that we are doing a film right now, “Beyond The Blue.” and we’re looking for military and government officials to come forward. And we can be reached at — we’re also working on a book with Fife Simington Leslie Kean, “Out of the Blue”. If you Google “Out of the Blue,” you’ll find our Web site. And please contact me, because we are on the road for the next three weeks with a camera crew…
KING: Just Google “Out of the Blue.”
Fife Simington is the former governor of Arizona, who was…
FOX: Yes, he is. And he’s working on the book with Leslie Kean, a journalist out of New York.
KING: Do you think in your lifetime, Stanton, you’re going to get the answer — I mean the real answer? FRIEDMAN: Well, I’m older than he is but (LAUGHTER).
KING: Do you think you’re ever going to see it on the front page of the “New York Times?”
FRIEDMAN: Yes. Yes, I’m still an optimist. Yes. I think so, Larry. I think truth will out. It may take a long while. This year has seen a big change in press attitudes. Ten percent of the people in my audiences believe they’ve seen one, but 90 percent of them didn’t report it. If we could change that around to the other way…
KING: Yes.
FRIEDMAN: (INAUDIBLE).
KING: Angelia, what kind of attention are you getting?
Are press people contacting you from other places?
KING: Angelia?
JOINER: Oh, yes. I can hear you now. Yes, I am having a lot of press people contact me from other places, from as far as away as Japan and London, Canada, just all over the world.
KING: Claudette, do you have any friends now who think you’re a kook?
(LAUGHTER)
ODAM: Several. Yes, family friends — not so much a kook as they’re just — they’re just inquisitive as to, you know, what happened, what we saw.
KING: Steve, is there a sense of disbelief?
ALLEN: No. Most people that know me know that I definitely saw something. So they are — they — actually they’ve been out in their airplanes searching the skies every afternoon.
KING: You’re a private pilot, right?
ALLEN: Yes, sir.
KING: Have you ever seen anything when you’ve flown?
ALLEN: Absolutely nothing like this. I haven’t seen anything remotely close to this.
KING: Do you think, Ken, that we’ll ever have the full story, as I like to say — will we ever see it on the front page of “The New York Times?”
CHERRY: Well, I’d like to see it on the front page of “The New York Times”. It does seem that there are more and more rashes of these mass sightings and whereas in the past people were — wanted to either forget about it, overlook it or just laugh at it, it’s taken more seriously now. And I think that’s probably what has been going on, is that setting the stage for letting the public really know. And I think that’s what — what is happening in some regards and…
(CROSSTALK)
KING: One at a time.
James?
FOX: All right, really quickly, I just want to mention that when I was walking through the halls of Congress and I handed out copies of “Out of the Blue” to each and every member of the House. It took me a week. And I met with a couple of members of Congress at the time, a couple years ago. And they said they were generally interested in what was happening and they were sincerely interested. And they said but we can’t go out on a limb on our own. We need pressure from our constituents…
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
FOX: …before we can have Congressional hearings on this matter.
So it’s really up to the people to contact our representatives and say, look, we demand you guys look into this whole phenomenon. And that’s what it would take — open Congressional hearings and this thing would be over.
KING: Stanton, what are they — what is — what are the powers that be afraid of?
FRIEDMAN: I think they’re afraid of admitting they’ve ignored the biggest story of the millennium for 60 years. Nobody likes to say hey, we goofed — you know, the “New York Times,” “The Washington Post”.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
FRIEDMAN: Secondly, I think there’s a lot of concern on the religious side of things. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson have claimed that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. And they’d be up the creek without a religious paddle — Jerry’s already there.
(LAUGHTER)
FRIEDMAN: But — and so there are concerns about the overall impact, about how we think about ourselves. And, you know, people say why don’t they land on the White House lawn?
The president of the United States — I know this will shock you, but the president of the United States does not speak for six billion Earthlings. Sometimes he doesn’t speak for 300 million Americans.
You say well, we’ll hold an election. That’s the democratic thing to do.
Who speaks for planet Earth? And let the Chinese have 1 .3 billion votes versus America at 300 million?
No way.
So there are some serious concerns along those lines about where do we go from here?
You know, we’re a planet where nationalism is the only game in town. I don’t need to tell you that.
Would this change things?
The galactic federation doesn’t allow individual countries any more than the United Nations allows individual cities to belong, wouldn’t you say?
So there are serious implications here.
KING: Wow!
FOX: Yes, I was going to say really quickly…
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Larry…
KING: Hold it.
FOX: All right, really quickly, is that, you know, I don’t know, a lot of people have — feel very passionately about a number of different terrestrial issues. But I feel, at the same time — and I agree with that. But, at the same time, if there is evidence that suggests we’re not alone in the universe being withheld from us, I think that’s unconscionable.
KING: Ken, was that you that wanted to say something?
CHERRY: Yes. Yes. I think we are getting closer to full disclosure. We have government after government that are opening their files — the Brazilians, the British, the Australians, the Japanese. We’ve had three cabinet members recently express their belief in UFOs. And I find it kind of interesting that they now have a satellite crisscrossing the moon taking photos and there have been some anomalous objects in some of those photographs. And suddenly three high-ranking cabinet members that say hey, we believe in UFOs.
KING: All right.
Hey, Steve, Claudette and Angelia, thanks.
Ken Cherry, thanks.
When we come back, three new panelists will be added to James Fox and Stanton Friedman.
Coming up, another fascinating story.
Eleven years ago, was there a UFO flying over Phoenix?
We’ll talk to eyewitnesses when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, “THE SITUATION ROOM”: Members of the Mexican Air Force think they could be UFOs. Pilots taped 11 unidentified flying objects over southern parts of the country, near the Gulf of Mexico.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it was not a weather balloon nor an aircraft nor a missile. It was something else, which — we didn’t know what it was.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The government likes to have power and that’s a powerful thing to keep secret from the masses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Remaining with us, James Fox, the documentary filmmaker of “Out of The Blue” and Stanton Friedman, nuclear physicist and UFO researcher. Joining us now in Phoenix, Monica Bush. She says she witnessed a massive boomerang-shaped formation of lights on March 13th, 1997, the so-called Phoenix Lights Incident. Former Arizona governor Fife Simonton (ph) has said that he witnessed a huge other worldly object that same night. With Monica is Erin Watson, Monica’s sister, who also witnessed the Phoenix Lights, and in Tucson, Arizona is James Mcgaha, astronomer and founder of Tucson Skeptics Incorporated, a retired United States Air Force pilot.
Monica, take us back. What did you see on March 13th, 1997?
MONICA BUSH, SAW UFO IN PHOENIX: Hi, Larry. I was actually at my parents’ house that night. They lived just at the base of a large mountain, Camelback Mountain, there in Phoenix. And I was talking on the phone and I saw an enormous boomerang-shaped row of lights come right on top of the mountain. In fact, the first time I saw it, I thought it was a rescue mission because hikers often get stuck on top of that Camelback Mountain.
And when I realized the enormity of the object on the mountain, I ran inside to get as many family members as I could so we could try to figure out what it was together. We could put our heads together to figure out what it was.
KING: Were you scared?
BUSH: No, not at all initially, really not at all the whole time. I guess there was no point I thought that I wasn’t going to figure out what it was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE No sound either.
KING: OK. And there was no sound, right. ERIN WATSON, SAW UFO IN PHOENIX: Yes, completely silent.
KING: Erin, how did you react?
WATSON: It was just kind of an amazing sight. I just was more wondering what it was and what kind of craft. To me the most shocking thing was the silence. How can this huge object in the air that was the size of — I compare it to two cruise ships almost. It was like a city in the air, not make any sound. It was just — it was is crazy.
KING: Where did it go?
BUSH: It went — flew right — I mean, it was several minutes, it was four minutes or so that we were able to observe it. And ultimately, it fell south behind our house. And then ultimately quickly out of sight.
KING: Did you — I guess many people reported this, right?
BUSH: Yes, we hear tens of thousands of people saw it.
KING: Was there any official reaction, Erin?
WATSON: You know, it’s funny. I didn’t think twice about it. I didn’t — I don’t know. To me, I didn’t think of like UFO. I just thought tomorrow in the news, we’re going to hear what it is, you know, like I really did the next day. I thought, OK, we’re going to hear all about it, what this huge thing in the sky was. It was never talked about.
So I was more embarrassed than anything. I was a senior in high school. And I just kind of kept it to myself at that point when I thought people would think I was crazy, you know?
KING: James?
FOX: Erin, how are you?
WATSON: Good, how are you?
FOX: Good. I want to ask you quickly, your mother, was it your mother who called the local airport because it was sort of heading off in that direction.
WATSON: Yes.
FOX: What did the airport say or who it was that called the airport?
WATSON: My mother called the airport because initially she called because we’re in a no flight zone over our house. So that was her first concern, honestly. And she call the airport and they instantly gave her the number to a UFO sightings reporting agency, I guess, in Seattle. So instantly, they gave her that number. We were all like what? You know, why are you calling them?
FOX: So the airport said they didn’t see anything.
WATSON: Yes, they said we don’t see anything on the radar.
FOX: Got you.
KING: James Mcgaha is an astronomer, a founder of Tucson Skeptics Incorporate, retired U.S. Air Force pilot. I know you’re a skeptic. What do you think they saw?
JAMES MCGAHA, UFO SKEPTIC, ASTRONOMER: It depends on which time of night they saw them. There were two sets of lights that night. There were lights at about 8:30 that night and there was a separate set of lights at 10:10 that night. The lights at 8:30 that night were a formation of five aircraft flying over the area.
KING: Don’t laugh.
MCGAHA: This is quite clear because I have documented evidence of this. The 10:10 lights were flares that were dropped on the range about 100 miles southwest of Phoenix.
KING: So —
MCGAHA: These flares are quite bright. They’re two million candle power. They can light up an area on the ground a mile in diameter. And they’re on parachutes so they hang in the air for a considerable amount of time.
KING: How are they used, for what purpose?
MCGAHA: The flares are used for night flying so that you can light up the ground for night attack with aircraft and other things to see the ground. That’s what they’re used for.
KING: All right. Do you think he’s wrong, James.
FOX: One thing I have to ask you, quickly is, do you understand that Governor Fife Simonton actually investigated this himself and talked to the people at Luke Air Force Base, the general there, and I believe he made all sorts of inquiries? Why would they not have told him that what people saw, including himself, were military flares? It doesn’t make any sense.
This was a craft. This wasn’t lights. Everyone’s talking about a craft. I don’t understand how you could think of — it’s silent. It doesn’t make a lot of noise. A-10 Warthogs make a lot of noise.
KING: Let him respond. James?
MCGAHA: Well, the issue here is people see lights in the sky. The issue is interpretation of those lights, whether they connect the lights together and make a single object out of them. People are not trained observers. They misinterpret all the time when they see strange and unusual objects, and they have misperceptions of it.
As to Luke Air Force Base, Luke Air Force Base had nothing to do with this. These A-10s that dropped the flares that night were out of a Maryland national guard unit that was TDY, Temporary Duty at Davis Monthon (ph) Air Force base in Tucson.
FOX: One thing is, I have to direct this question to Erin. Erin, who was it that actually witnessed this had craft take off?
WATSON: That was me.
FOX: OK, thank you.
WATSON: Yes, it was my two brothers and I; and we stood outside watching it. First of all, I want to clear something up. I was underneath the craft, looked up and the stars were covered. I saw an object. So unless you were there, there’s no way of you even being —
KING: Let me get a break and we’ll pick right back up with Monica, Erin and James, and Stanton and our other James. Don’t go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had the evidence that the crash did happen here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And in the red light was sort of casting a glow over the whole thing so it looked like a round disk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People say Mike, you saw a B-2 Bomber. My response was, we could land all 40 of our B-2 Bombers on the wing of that craft.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would go ahead and feel the craft which was warm.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: James Mcgaha, these two intelligent young ladies, Monica Bush and Erin Watson, are saying this craft went over their house. It took five minutes to go over their house. They looked up at it. Are you denying what they saw?
MCGAHA: I’m not denying that they saw lights. I am saying they misinterpreted those lights. There was clearly a formation of five aircraft flying in formation with their formation lights on that night. I actually have a video — I actually have a videotape of that, of those five lights in formation. And I have a confirm eye- witness, who viewed it through a very large astronomical telescope, to say they were individual airplanes.
KING: Monica, how do you react to that?
BUSH: It was clearly not five aircraft. It was one aircraft with several lights. And it was right over our house for a long period of time with five people observing it at the same time.
KING: Erin, making no sound. WATSON: Completely silent, and unless there is a plane that’s a mile long, or — it was all connected, so, bottom line, it was one object that we looked up at.
MCGAHA: How do you know they were connected.
WATSON: Because we looked up and you couldn’t see stars through it. That’s why I was like, wow.
MCGAHA: Are you qualified to look at the sky at night.
WATSON: I’m not.
MCGAHA: Do you identify stars.
WATSON: I don’t really care about the subject enough. I saw what I saw. I wish you would have seen it. I really do. I wish more than myself that you would have seen it.
FOX: Hold on, James. One more question, Erin. You guys saw this thing take off?
WATSON: Yes.
FOX: You saw it take off. Come on.
WATSON: It was probably like a mile south of our house. My two brothers and I witnessed, it was a V-shaped, like boomerang shaped, and it kind of like kind went in a little bit and then it was gone. There was no fumes. There was no evidence.
KING: Stanton, how do you react to James’ differing?
FRIEDMAN: I think that he started off with the conclusion that there are no flying saucers, there are no alien spacecraft. Anyone who thinks they’ve seen one is simply mistaken. He’s a competent pilot. He knows. He ought to talk to the guys at the National Aviation Reporting Center for Anomalous Phenomenon. They’ve collected more than 3,000 pilot sightings, many of these multiple witness, radar visual in the sky, in the daytime.
KING: Why do you deny it, James? James, why do you deny it?
MCGAHA: I’m not denying it. I am looking at — simply looking at the evidence. First off, I should say, pilots are not trained observers either. They’re trained to fly airplanes. Let’s be clear about that, pilots make mistakes identifying things in the sky all the time.
Secondly, the issue is about whether lights in the sky should be interpreted as spacecraft from another world. There’s hundreds and hundreds of things that cause lights in the sky, natural phenomenon, astronomical phenomenon, atmospheric phenomenon, man-made phenomenon.
KING: But the girls are saying —
MCGAHA: None of these have anything to do with extra-terrestrial space craft.
KING: But the girls are saying they saw a craft fly over their house that was large in size that took five minutes to pass over the house.
MCGAHA: Well, these were — the aircraft that were flying through that night were flying at a slow air speed at a high altitude. They would not have made any noise. Let’s identify what they’re saying. They’re saying an aircraft a mile across flew through the Phoenix Airport area, one of the busiest in the United States, a mile across, didn’t divert aircraft and they didn’t see it on radar.
WATSON: Yes, that’s why we called the airport. Instantly.
BUSH: And us and 10,000 other people saw that.
KING: I’ve got to go the a break. Thanks Monica. Thanks Erin. James will remain with us. And James Mcgaha, Stanton Friedman and James Fox will complete our discussion. Right now, let’s check in with Anderson Cooper, the host of “AC 360” at the top of the hour. Anderson, what’s up?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Larry, the top of the hour on 360, the clock is ticking to two major milestones in the race for president. In a few hours, the caucuses in Nevada and the Republican primary in South Carolina gets underway. This past week has taught us nothing if not that the race for president remains as wide open as it was a month ago. Maybe tomorrow, we’ll get closer to finding out who truly has the inside track at securing their party’s nomination.
We’ll check out the latest on the polls. We’ll look at where and how the leading candidates are making their final pushes and take a close look how the evangelical vote could be the difference in South Carolina.
Also tonight, exclusive new pictures and information in the case of the missing Marine suspected of killing this young woman, fellow Marine Maria Lauterbach (ph), things you’ll only see on 360 tonight, that authorities hope could help catch suspect Caesar Laurian (ph), who remains on the run. All that and more at the top of the hour.
KING: Anderson Cooper, 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific. We’ll be right back. Don’t go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god! I’m trying to keep it in the frame and it’s just —
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looks like it. Whatever it is, it’s on fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grandpa, was there any people? Did you see people? And he said, sweetie, he said they were just poor little creatures.
(END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Remaining with us, James Fox and Stanton Friedman here in New York. and in Tucson, James Mcgaha. What did you think of the Texas sitings, Mr. Mcgaha.
MCGAHA: The sitings are (r)MD+IN¯(r)MDNM¯a classical example of people seeing lights. They really did see lights in the sky. But their interpretation of the lights — we wouldn’t be sitting here talking about these lights if someone hadn’t said the word UFO, implying an extra terrestrial spacecraft.
Clearly, they saw lights. What it should be noted is that Stephensville is on an air traffic corridor, both a low altitude corridor, high altitude corridor going across the country. It’s also on the approach routes into Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas, and it’s just northeast of two military operating areas, MOAs, in which aircraft operate. And, in fact, military aircraft were operating in those MOAs that night.
In addition to that, the atmospheric conditions that night were conducive to other atmospheric phenomenon, such as sun dogs. And, in fact, someone actually took a picture that afternoon saying that it looked like something he — some of the people had seen and it was a sun dog.
KING: Stanton, when you hear people like James present the opposition, do you also look into his presentation? Do you investigate his side?
FRIEDMAN: Yes, I do. As a matter of fact, in a new book, I show that certain documents that are controversial — I find a bunch of phony documents as well as the real ones. I’m only interested in the real ones, of course, but I had to go check out the phony explanations that James has provide. The Air Force has said they didn’t have anything flying. Remember, they discounted that very strongly, not us. We know from nothing.
It is really sad, Larry, that, for example, an Air Force general said reports which could affect national security are not part of the Project Blue Book system. That’s a formal statement by an Air Force general. It led to the closing of the old Project Blue Book. You haven’t seen the press grab on to that one, the good cases, the ones that could affect national security. They’re the only ones we care about.
KING: James Fox, do the nay-sayers like James ever make an impression on.
FOX: You know, it’s frustrating to me because it’s like going like this. Listen to the testimony of the people that are saying and respond to what they’re actually saying. And that at least, you know, is intelligent dialogue.
KING: James Mcgaha, do you completely dismiss the idea of aliens and UFOs? MCGAHA: Not of aliens. Extra terrestrial life, of course, is possible. The question is whether it’s visited the Earth or not. There’s simply no evidence that extra terrestrial spacecraft have ever visited the earth.
FOX: That’s easy to say.
MCGAHA: Yes, it’s easy to say because there’s no evidence. The scientific community would agree. I am a scientist. I study the night sky. I take images every night of the night sky.
By the way, let me comment on this Air Force issue, which is a little bit complicated.
KING: I’ve got to take a break and have you comment because we’re running out of time. We’ll be right back. Don’t go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the southwest of England, just outside Somerset, there was another sighting. It was captured on videotape.
We took this tape to be analyzed by Lucas Films special effects division, Industrial Light and Magic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It’s coming this way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you were to give me a background plate of just the sky and say we want you to take this image of a flying saucer and match it in, that’s something that’s technically very difficult to do. I’m convinced that this object was there when this person was taping.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: James Mcgaha, quickly about the Air Force.
MCGAHA: Basically, when people ask the Air Force, they talk to the public affairs officer trying to find out what happened. Very often, they’ll ask someone, ask the flying units, and sometimes they don’t ask the right agencies and so forth. I have checked into this, and in fact, there were eight F-16s flying in the MOA that night. I haven’t been able to verify this yet, but I’d suspect they dropped flares that night as well, but I can’t confirm that at this point.
KING: All right. James Fox.
FOX: Yes, I was going to say James, I direct this question to you. If you’re out there somewhere, why can’t we just say, you know what, we don’t know what that was? Why can’t we just say that? Why do we have to find a prosaic explanation to every sighting that exists today? And why are all these qualified radar operators and pilots and high ranking military and government officials from all around the world, why does there have to be a conventional or prosaic explanation to each and every case? Why can’t we just shrug our shoulders and say we don’t know? KING: James?
MCGAHA: Because there’s no evidence. The question should be asked, if this is such an interesting subject, why are not scientists investigating this topic. When I bring this subject up to fellow astronomers, they laugh at it.
FRIEDMAN: Astronomers also laughed at many other things like travel to the moon, like space travel. They said that the surface of Mars was in a way that it isn’t. Astronomy has a long history of jumping to conclusions and having to admit that they were wrong and forgetting what they said before, of course.
FOX: The Conman Report (ph), Stanton.
FRIEDMAN: I’m a scientist. I’ve talked to many scientists. I’ve talked to 700 audiences, many of them scientific groups. They are interested. You say there’s no evidence. I say we’ve got 4,000 physical trace cases. We’ve got 3,000 pilot sightings. We have multiple witness radar visual sightings. What is it you want?
We have a crashed saucer. I don’t have a piece of the saucer or a body or a piece of a neutron star or of a supernova.
FOX: Stan, the Conman Report, all the scientists, the panel of scientists on the Conman Report. They’re scientists.
KING: What are you saying?
(CROSS TALK)
KING: James Mcgaha, are you saying definitively, there are no UFOs?
MCGAHA: I’m saying there’s no evidence that there are UFOs. UFOs are basically a myth and magical superstition belief system by many people that these alien spacecraft are flying around here. There’s simply no evidence that they are. That doesn’t mean that it’s impossible that an alien civilization could fly here. There’s simply no evidence. Until there is evidence, the scientific community is not going to be interested.
KING: So these people are not seeing what they’re seeing or they don’t know what they’re seeing or they’re misreading?
MCGAHA: They’re misinterpreting what they’re seeing. They’re not trained observers. They’re allowing their perceptions to bias what they’re seeing. And they’re misinterpreting that, in addition.
KING: James Fox, Stanton Friedman, James Mcgaha, we’ll do lots more on this. Good luck in France. This weekend, check out CNN.com/LarryKing. You can download our current podcast with the amazing and always talented Queen Latifah and Diane Keaton. You can email upcoming guests, participate in our quick votes, too. All at CNN.com/LarryKing.
And now without further ado, if there’s life on another planet, he will be there to cover it, Anderson Cooper at “AC 360.” Anderson?
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