戈尔巴乔夫与里根：假设外星人攻击下的军事联盟（GORBACHEV AND REAGAN: A MILITARY ALLIANCE AGAINST A HYPHOTE）

米哈伊尔·谢尔盖耶维奇·戈尔巴乔夫在圣塞尔沃洛岛的新闻发布会上
（意大利，2006年6月）。

照片由L. Scantamburlo拍摄。

媒体、公民与权力，
在威尼斯泻湖圣塞尔沃洛岛举行的国际研讨会（2006年6月，意大利）。

日内瓦，1985年11月

由罗纳德·里根图书馆提供。

前苏联总理接受意大利电视主持人采访，
提供日内瓦峰会的更多细节

作者：Luca Scantamburlo

去年6月23日，在威尼斯泻湖圣塞尔沃洛岛由威尼斯省议会中心举办的国际研讨会《媒体、公民与权力》第一天的新闻发布会上，前苏联总理米哈伊尔·谢尔盖耶维奇·戈尔巴乔夫回答了数十位国家和地方媒体记者的提问。该国际研讨会（2006年6月23日至24日）由威尼斯省和戈尔巴乔夫创立的世界政治论坛支持。
  
  当时，我是奥林匹亚出版集团（意大利《技术与防御》和《UFO新闻》杂志的出版商）的记者，并获准在新闻发布会上发言。我向这位伟大的俄罗斯政治家提出的问题对一位政治家来说非同寻常：它涉及罗纳德·里根关于“来自另一个星球的外星威胁”可能性的公开声明，这种可能性将帮助所有人认识到“团结全人类”的共同纽带（1985年12月4日在马里兰州一所高中前的演讲，以及1987年9月21日在联合国第四十二届大会上的演讲）。

  在我提问时，前总理戈尔巴乔夫打断了我，并提到里根说：“顺便说一句，他也曾和我谈过这件事”；于是我立即回应：“在日内瓦，1985年？”戈尔巴乔夫没有否认，最后我请他评论去年（2005年9月）加拿大前国防部长保罗·赫利尔在多伦多大学发表的令人费解的声明（见意大利报纸《La Stampa》2005年11月26日第10页Maurizio Molinari的文章）。赫利尔谈到了可能即将发生的“星际战争”，美国因此秘密准备。

  尽管戈尔巴乔夫的回答是：“我们处于假设的范围内”，并专注于“更严重的”彗星和小行星威胁（即近地天体，我们可以使用“仅为此保留的缩减核防御武器”来应对），但他最近确认了与里根讨论的一个特定时刻，这值得注意。

  但为什么里根私下与戈尔巴乔夫谈论来自其他物种的外星威胁？我们仍在等待一个明确的答案，几周前，我们意外地获得了1985年11月日内瓦峰会的更多细节。10月29日，意大利国家电视台RAI TRE的主持人法比奥·法齐奥在他的晚间节目中采访了戈尔巴乔夫。
  对这位著名政治家的采访持续了半小时：最后，法比奥·法齐奥有些尴尬地询问了他与里根在1980年代的讨论，特别是关于UFO的话题。意大利主持人向戈尔巴乔夫解释说，有人（我想是某些在家观看的观众）写信给他想了解此事。关于我之前向这位前苏联总理提出的同一问题，戈尔巴乔夫再次有机会更平静地回答；而且问题比我的更不具体，因此更容易处理。
所以这位前苏联总理严肃地回忆了那一刻：

  RAI TRE频道，节目《Che tempo che fa》，2006年10月29日；俄语到意大利语的同声传译由一位女声完成；以下转录是我翻译成英文的版本：

戈尔巴乔夫：“那是第一次会面，我们的对话非常艰难。特别是那次对话从他称我为‘非常顽固的布尔什维克’开始，而我则称他为‘恐龙’。”

法齐奥[微笑]：“亲切。不错……”
[观众笑声和掌声]。

戈尔巴乔夫：“但在几天内，我们取得了很大进展。以至于最终达成了一份文件，其中写道，我们总统们认为核战争是不可接受的，因为不会有赢家。”

法齐奥：“实际上，冷战的结束。”

戈尔巴乔夫：“差不多。不！还需要一点时间。至于对话，当时非常困难，因为我们完全无法达成共识。我记得：在我们会面的别墅花园散步时，里根总统停下来，说：‘但是，听我说，戈尔巴乔夫总统。如果现在，从太空，我们受到攻击，我们会联合起来吗？我们会合作吗？’我回答他：‘我不知道你怎么想，但我建议我们联合起来，集中力量？’[?]”

[观众掌声]。

 戈尔巴乔夫最近的回忆非常有意义，并证实了居住在纽约的著名俄罗斯历史学家撒迦利亚·西琴在其著作《创世记重访》（1991年）第13章中所写的内容：很可能理解、信任与合作的新时代之所以诞生，也是因为存在对所有地球国家的外星威胁。
  也许它仍然存在。

© Luca Scantamburlo
2006年11月21日

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M.S.Gorbachev during the press conference at San Servolo Island 
(Italy, June 2006). 

Photo by L. Scantamburlo.

Media between Citizens and Power,
international seminar taken place in San Servolo Island in the Venetian Lagoon (June 2006, Italy).

Geneva, November 1985

Courtesy Ronald Reagan Library.

THE FORMER SOVIET PREMIER, INTERVIEWED BY AN ITALIAN TELEVISION HOST,
PROVIDES FURTHER DETAILS ON THE GENEVAN SUMMIT

by Luca Scantamburlo

Last June 23, during the press conference of the first day of the international seminar entitled Media between Citizens and Power taken place in San Servolo Island in the Venetian Lagoon, by the congress centre of the Venice Province, the ex Soviet premier Michail Sergeevich Gorbachev answered to some tens of national and local press correspondents. The international seminar (from 23 until 24 June 2006) was supported by the Venice Province and by the World Political Forum founded by Gorbachev. 
  
  On that occasion I was the correspondent for the Gruppo Editoriale Olimpia, Italian publisher of the magazines Tecnologia&Difesa and UFO Notiziario, and I was able to ask leave to speak by the press conference. My question put to the great Russian politician was unusual for a statesman: it concerned some public declarations by Ronald Reagan about the possibility of ?an alien threat from outside this world? to the Earth coming from ?another planet?, eventuality that would help all the men to recognize the common bond which ?unites all the members of the humanity? (speechs in front of a high school in Maryland on December 4, 1985, and in front of the General Assembly of the United Nations during the Forty-second Session on September 21, 1987). 

  During my interrogative the ex premier Gorbachev interrupted me and, referring to Reagan, said: ?Among other things he once talked about it with me as well?; so straight away I replyed: ?In Geneva, in 1985?, without denial from Gorbachev to whom I finally asked a comment about the baffling declarations released last year (September 2005) at the Toronto University by Paul Hellyer, ex Canadian Minister of Defense (see the article by Maurizio Molinari for the Italian newspaper La Stampa, November 26, 2005, page 10). Hellyer talked about the possibility of an imminent ?intergalactic war? because of that the United States of America would get ready by secret. 

  Although the Gorbachev?s answer was: ?we are in a range of hypotheses? and he concentrated on ?the more serious? cometary and asteroidal threat of the so-called NEOs (against that we could use a ?reduced armament of nuclear defense?, kept only for that), his recent confirmation on a particular moment of the discussion with Reagan is remarkable. 

  But why did Reagan talk to Gorbachev in private about an alien threat from other species? We were still waiting for a precise answer and some weeks ago unexpectedly we had some further details on the Genevan summit taken place in November 1985. On 29 October Fabio Fazio, an Italian presenter of RAI TRE (one of the State channels in Italy), has hosted Gorbachev during his evening show.
  The interview to the famous statesman has lasted half an hour: at the end, with a bit of embarrassament, Fabio Fazio has asked him about the discussions had with Reagan during the 1980s, with reference to the UFOs. The Italian presenter has explained to Gorbachev that someone (perhaps some spectator at home, I suppose) had written to him to know about it. Regarding my question already put to the former Soviet premier on the same subject, Gorbachev has had once again the opportunity to answer with more quiet; and moreover the question was less specific than mine. Therefore more manageable. 
So the ex Soviet premier recalled that moment with seriousness:  

  Channel RAI TRE, show Che tempo che fa, 10-29-2006 ; simultaneous translation from Russian into Italian by a female voice over; the following trascription is my translation into English:

Gorbaciov: ?It was the first meeting and our conversations were very difficult. Particularly that conversation began from the fact he named me ?a very stubborn Bolshevik? and I defined him with the appellative of ?dinosaur?. 

Fazio [smiling] : ?Kind. Nice..? 
[ laughes and applauses from the public ]. 

Gorbaciov: ?But in a couple of days we went a long way. So much to get to a conclusive document where there was written that we, the Presidents, believed the nuclear warfare was not acceptable because they would have not been winners. ? 

Fazio: ?The end of Cold War, practically.? 

Gorbaciov: ?Almost. No! It still needs a little time. As regards the dialogue, at that time it was a dialogue very difficult because absolutely we could not to meet us halfway. And I remember: during a walk by the villa garden where we met the President Reagan stopped and said: – But, listen to me President Gorbachev. If now, from the Space, we were attacked, would we put ourself together? Would we joint? ? I answered to him: – I do not know what you think about but I propose to put ourself together, to joint the forces? [?] 

[ applauses from the public ].   

 The recent Gorbachev?s recollection is really meaningful and confirms what Zecharia Sitchin, the well-known Russian historian who lives in New York , wrote on his essay Genesis Revisited (1991), chapter 13: it is likely that the new era of understanding, trust and co-operation was born also because there was an alien threat to all the nations of the Earth. 
  And maybe it does still exist. 

© Luca Scantamburlo 
21 November 2006

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